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Risk reinvented - more than a map idea, an immersing saga

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:16 pm
by DiM
fancy words in the title huh? :lol:

ok so i have this idea. it's maybe even crazier than the riddler map (see sig) and definitely impossible at this stage. but here goes.
i've probably mentioned the basic info before i don't remember how much brain spillage i put in the foundry as i've posted way too much for me to search.

remember it's impossible now but we're allowed to dream. bombardments were impossible some time ago and now we have them. this might take a bit (actually a lot) more than just a few xml gimmicks but hey it's 1am i'm bored i can't sleep and i don't feel like playing my turns.

how does this work?
well when you enter the game you see a huge map and i do mean huge something like 100 normal maps put side by side. but this map is split into quadrants and each quadrant is a standalone map. let's say we have 100 quadrants displayed in a 10 by 10 formation. that means 8000*8000 px map. what you do is select a quadrant by clicking on it and you are zoomed to it and it's displayed like a normal map. zoom out and you see the whole image (obviously reduce to an acceptable size maybe 1600*1600px) each layer has a fixed location. in a certain part of the map. but those locations aren't really fixed. they depend on game type. for example. in a standard game each player will be alone in a quadrant far away from others. but in a quadruples game each team starts with all its players in the same region.

depending on game type selected the goals the game can be different, from a random range of preset objectives.

for example a standard game can give quests like go there hold that for 1 turn and have 100 armies on it. or clear a certain quadrant.
if it's a team game then we have a whole different range of random objectives. like get x and z resources and establish a trade route with town x and hold it for n turns. or build a fortress on quadrant M and get 1000 armies there.

yes i said build a fortress. how you may ask? well the map changes. it really does, depending on the actions of the players. the coding is actually simple. you just have to insert some if/then commands. for example if rock quarry, stone mason and town x are held by the same player/team then the image selected is Z where Z image has a stone fortress on it. if the other team comes and breaks one of the conditions (ie captures the quarry) then the image is reverted to the one without the fortress.

also the map will have dungeons. what's so special about them? well on the big map (the 8000*8000 one) you won't see the dungeons. the dungeon quadrants will have a bif question mark on them because they will be random. each time a game is started a random dungeon image file is selected. and you won't know what it is until you enter it. those dungeons will always contain huge rewards but also huge dangers. for example a dungeon may have a terit that gives a one time bonus of 1000 armies (once you hold it you get the armies and then no matter who else takes it it no longer gives that bonus). or that dungeon may contain a teleport to something important on the map. let's say a secret 1 way passage inside the enemy camp.

obviously the map will be 99.99% filled with neutrals. but those neutrals will always give a bonus. it will work like this. you get 1 terit that gives you 1 army each turn the starting terit. then you kill a terit with three neutrals. and you get a 1 time bonus of 3 troops. just 1 time. it's like killing a bear in an rpg and getting 300 points of xp. the more you kill the more troops you get. go in different locations find and take resources key points towns docks etc and you'll even get more troops each turn not just the one time bonus for killing neutrals. let's say you take a town and make it your own. it will give you troops each turn. get some resources to that town and you'll get even more troops. you get the idea.


now what do you think?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:28 pm
by DiM
21 views and no replies. :( people must think i'm either drunk or crazy and they're too scared to post. :lol:

i haven't touched alcohol in many years and i'm nut in a nut house either so don't be afraid i don't byte unless it arouses you and you are a beautiful (not necessary) woman (this one's also optional)

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:28 pm
by edbeard
I think it's a great idea, but it will either never happen on Conquer Club or it will be two or three years away at best.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:30 pm
by DiM
edbeard wrote:I think it's a great idea, but it will either never happen on Conquer Club or it will be two or three years away at best.


finally a poster. :lol:

hey i don't expect it to be possible tomorrow. i'm just putting the idea for discussion to see if people like it. then we can ask lack to implement the means necessary for the map to exist, then we can start the map. i think it would be great. i actually think it could be used as a standalone game not related to CC.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:37 pm
by edbeard
If it's as big as you're imagining, then it would require beta testing to get gameplay done right.

There's just so many obstacles. Lack has a lot of other things on his plate. Working the kinks out of this latest update, whatever future updates he was planning, XML Update, scrolling possibilities so that larger maps can be made, and probably a whole lot of other stuff.

If you were to get rid of the changing image thing, then you could at least make it into a table top type game for you and your friends. Unless you were to make cards that go on the table top or something, and when a change happens you switch out the rock quarry, stone mason and town for the Z image.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:43 pm
by DiM
edbeard wrote:If it's as big as you're imagining, then it would require beta testing to get gameplay done right.

There's just so many obstacles. Lack has a lot of other things on his plate. Working the kinks out of this latest update, whatever future updates he was planning, XML Update, scrolling possibilities so that larger maps can be made, and probably a whole lot of other stuff.

If you were to get rid of the changing image thing, then you could at least make it into a table top type game for you and your friends. Unless you were to make cards that go on the table top or something, and when a change happens you switch out the rock quarry, stone mason and town for the Z image.


true beta testing would be a must. also the xmls and all the images would be impossible to be created by one person. it would need a group effort. but i'm sure that if the conditions for such a map to exist would be met then play testers xml writers and map makers will be found easily.

PS: the main reason why i won't make this into an image for me to play on is that such a game would be impossible to finish in one go. i've played risk games that took 5-6 hours around the table. the same game would have taken probably 1 hour on CC, not to mention here you can simply stop and come back the next day. in real life you can't

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:59 pm
by edbeard
problem is it's hard to get people to work on something that may never see the light of day. I see it as one of those chicken/egg things. You can't get people to work on it unless they know it'll be something. You can't guarantee it'll be something unless you have a lot if not all of the work done. Also kinda like the foundry. It's very difficult to get people to talk about gameplay without a nice looking image. But if you're not doing the graphics, you can't get someone to do the graphics unless you have gameplay all set (Drug War cough cough)

But, it definitely sounds like fun. I like it a lot more than your riddler idea (not fond of that one honestly).

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:03 pm
by DiM
edbeard wrote:problem is it's hard to get people to work on something that may never see the light of day. I see it as one of those chicken/egg things. You can't get people to work on it unless they know it'll be something. You can't guarantee it'll be something unless you have a lot if not all of the work done. Also kinda like the foundry. It's very difficult to get people to talk about gameplay without a nice looking image. But if you're not doing the graphics, you can't get someone to do the graphics unless you have gameplay all set (Drug War cough cough)

But, it definitely sounds like fun. I like it a lot more than your riddler idea (not fond of that one honestly).


we're all reasonable people here. i'm sure that if lack is interested in offering such a map the chance to exists. i could come up with a draft. he could come up with some technical solutions then i'd gather some more interested people to help me and we'd make a better image and then lack will add some more technical features and so on. we all know nobody is willing to spend countless hours creating something that's never gonna be used. he won't do the coding if we don't make the map and we won't make the map unless he does the coding. so small steps taken by each side in the right direction, a few compromises here and there and the map would see the daylight.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:30 pm
by Keredrex
Sounds Awesome... I think it is more than a new Definition of the game, its the next evolution of its play style.

Imagine if you could apply it to some maps already made.... WW2 Western (Central) Eastern Front... It would be cool to play a game that incorporates all three maps that are already played in other games, by other players...

I think the club should get this going, you can survive without Evolution

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:33 pm
by fireedud
Yes I want this to happen, if this works, maybe my WWV map could be used.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:29 pm
by Herakilla
i would be a beta tester and i stand behind this but i must say not too many quadrants please lol

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:28 am
by mibi
sounds like a basic turn based strategy game. You could take a few years to try and make Conquer Club fit your idea, but I'm thinking there is already something similar out there that would be easier and more fun to play.

This idea also sounds like of like an over ambitious Epoch.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:52 am
by Keredrex
mibi wrote:sounds like a basic turn based strategy game. You could take a few years to try and make Conquer Club fit your idea, but I'm thinking there is already something similar out there that would be easier and more fun to play.

This idea also sounds like of like an over ambitious Epoch.


Yeah you got a point ..... but then again if we keep ssaying there is something else out there then we would rarely have anything new.....I think if there are enough interested and it was designed to be an optional way to play....(ie you would choose in game options... Linked or expansive domination mode or something.... where your moves affect the coarse of multiple maps in a strategically connected WAR

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:11 am
by Sven Hassel
make your own website game DiM :lol:

in any case i personally don't see this ever getting implemented on CC, its a radically new game with bits and parts of risk in it.


you can always try my first idea, make another game out of it :wink:

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:30 am
by Keredrex
Sven Hassel wrote:in any case i personally don't see this ever getting implemented on CC, its a radically new game with bits and parts of risk in it.


No its not that radical... It is still following the basic rules and play mechanics of CC... I just think another way to do LARGE maps is with sections of a larger MAP played as a battle ...within a war... Like playing USA Map ... Winning it .. and it turn controlling USA on the world 2.1 Map ... Then continuing in that game.... as it is we have just about every major continent or country represented in its own map...

Yes it is complex and won't happen for a while but i think its An awesome idea ... and with DIM's ideas of changing terits based on controlled areas we could have some really interesting MAPS for epic games.... Imagine playing Solar system - which in completion gives you the Sol continent on SPACE... Or whatever The cartographers can think of... I have a few ideas as it is I can only imagine what DIM has in mind.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:52 am
by whitestazn88
sounds light years away from now that this will happen. although stranger things have happened, ie. 8 player games finally popping up. lol.

on top of that i just feel like thats way too intimidating to play.

and with the things you're talking about like capturing a "quadrant" and holding it or w/e. a 1v1 game like that would take ages, seeing as how many territs would be neutrals, and then you have to get to the middle of a gigantic map. sounds crazy

maybe im picturing it wrong, but as of now i feel like its over everyone's heads

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:17 am
by mibi
Keredrex wrote:
mibi wrote:sounds like a basic turn based strategy game. You could take a few years to try and make Conquer Club fit your idea, but I'm thinking there is already something similar out there that would be easier and more fun to play.

This idea also sounds like of like an over ambitious Epoch.


Yeah you got a point ..... but then again if we keep ssaying there is something else out there then we would rarely have anything new.....I think if there are enough interested and it was designed to be an optional way to play....(ie you would choose in game options... Linked or expansive domination mode or something.... where your moves affect the coarse of multiple maps in a strategically connected WAR


yeah i guess... I'd rather play Age of Empires or something.

There is a fine line between a superior game of Risk, and an inferior game of something else.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:32 am
by DiM
mibi wrote:There is a fine line between a superior game of Risk, and an inferior game of something else.


wise words, that's why i said beta testers map makers xml gurus are needed. 1 person can make mistakes but between the brains of 10-20 people i think that fine line will not be broken and i am certain that a superior risk game can be achieved.
remember the mechanics and basic things will still be risk. the gameplay and story will however include traces of rpg and rts.

CC already contains bits of rpg and rts in maps like aor aom or feudal. think of the resources on aor or merchants. don't they remind you of those in age of empires? (heck even the name is similar) or think of the conquest gameplay. doesn't it have something from an rpg game where you start alone in a set location, explore the surroundings, fight neutrals and complete a quest (objective)?

this is just one (or more) steps ahead in that direction.

plus it comes up with a neat solution on the map size problem. of course not the easiest solution to implement but definitely a solution.

imagine epoch with all it's 9 maps linked together. wouldn't that be truly epic?

to be honest i was just thinking the other day about a complete redesign of CC. and i mean truly complete. nothing you know will be kept. everything will be scratched and thrown away and become something new something better something that would probably become truly addictive and redefine what relaxing around a risk board game means. unfortunately it is light years away. unfortunately it would take loads and loads of cash and a ton of programmers and testers. but then i bet lack would go from 20k active users to 2 million actives and he could safely ask 25$ per month and people would still think it's cheap.

heck if i had enough skill and time i would do my own website as it was suggested or if i had serious cash i wouldn't think twice before investing in such a project.
the technical possibilities exist. i know this for a fact. the problem is in the man power and funds.

btw. since this is actually not a map idea due to it's impossibility shouldn't it be moved to foundry discussion?

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:50 am
by unriggable
The only way this would work is if the armies of other players were shown without having to zoom in, even if its just filling in the territory with that color.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:15 pm
by Keredrex
mibi wrote:There is a fine line between a superior game of Risk, and an inferior game of something else.


Yes a fine line .... But a reachable goal.....Not only that but why not try to Design something new? ...Don't get me wrong I love the game as it is. New options never Make the game worse.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:49 pm
by DiM
Keredrex wrote: New options never Make the game worse.


i totally agree. having an option to do something different is always a good thing even if that "different" is sometimes bad.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:12 pm
by wcaclimbing
why not start with a smaller version of this. something like 1000x1000 size map, having around 1000 territories split into 4 quadrants. then we could see if a 8000x8000 would even be possible.

we need to start small [figuratively speaking]. try out a few not so huge versions, slowly graduating to a very big version. then we could be able to gauge the popularity of these "super-maps" and see if a 8000x8000 map would be worth the effort.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:19 pm
by DiM
wcaclimbing wrote:why not start with a smaller version of this. something like 1000x1000 size map, having around 1000 territories split into 4 quadrants. then we could see if a 8000x8000 would even be possible.

we need to start small [figuratively speaking]. try out a few not so huge versions, slowly graduating to a very big version. then we could be able to gauge the popularity of these "super-maps" and see if a 8000x8000 map would be worth the effort.


take the aor map. and then look on the left or the bottom and the top and you'll see the land stops at the edge of the image. now imagine that the map extends beyond the current edges and that the land continues and you discover new terits and perhaps a desert and beyond that desert some new realms or on the right the sea continues until you reach an archipelago and after that a new continent and so on. and now imagine the aor map is just a quadrant. 1 of the total 100. :wink:

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:57 pm
by Keredrex
We don't even need to Start .... technically
You could use the ww2 East Central West as an example
if it is agreed upon of course... The basic idea is once you conquer one you move on to the bigger map .... But it would be better to start with a new idea and build it accordingly

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:05 pm
by MPL
sounds great



but the fine print in your second post doesn't