Apprenticeships (idea)

[max is gr8]

I was thinking of a way to be able to keep all maps at this very high standard while increasing output, so I came up with a few ideas. The best way I could think of is apprenticeships. You get 1 or 2 people to "shadow" the production of a graphical map-maker, a game play manager etc. and hey presto if all goes well you have a few more map makers. So, what do people think, I need some people to endorse this I need some people to train and some people to be trained and if we get enough it can be a general insert of the Foundry Production

[t-o-m]

there are new foundry stamp lickers, they are assigned to a certain map to tone down the work load of the Cartos, wouldnt they just be doing the same job?

[max is gr8]

No,

Apprenticeship is a system of training a new generation of skilled crafts practitioners. Apprentices (or in early modern usage "prentices") build their careers from apprenticeships. Most of their training is done on the job while working for an employer who helps the apprentices learn their trade. An informal, theoretical education may also be involved.

[gimil]

If anyone wants to play the apprentice game they should just PM a few folk with experience and see who will take them on. Its a good idea but not one that I see having any substance. Talent around here comes tied to a busy real life.

[max is gr8]

gimil, surely you have seen people who have no idea of how to make maps, me included, waltz in and abandon the map because they have no skill. The requirement is there.

[gimil]

The requirements there, the time of anyone with the skill isnt

[max is gr8]

You do have a point but apprenticeships are meant to happen alongside the actual work so although it may slow production once the first 2 are taught they can teach 2 who can then pass on knowledge so really we only need 1 person who is skilled now for the whole of the future

[bryguy]

The requirements there, the time of anyone with the skill isnt

ACTUALLY.....

there are SOME map makers that have some extra time on there hands (i think). I know that I used to have a couple or 3 or 10 hours on my hands, but now (thanks to my dad) i only get 2 hours on the computer a day

[Mr. Squirrel]

This idea, in my opinion, would be ideal in a utopian world. Unfortunately, there aren't enough mapmakers who have enough time on their hands to do this, and even if we had a bunch, they wouldn't necessarily be able to teach others. I, for one, would love to learn how to make maps like Rjbeals, gimil, or oaktown, but I am a visual learner. I would need to have one of these mapmakers right beside me showing me how to use photoshop and how to make the various types of things on the map. This would be the same case for most people. It is hard to describe in words how to use a computer program. Most people would have to be shown how.

On top of this, not everyone is meant to teach. Some people have the natural skill of being able to use these programs and draw out amazing maps, and they might not be able to describe every little bit to someone willing to learn.

So, even though this is a great idea, there are just too many complication behind it. If by some miraculous chance you can get a system like this started, I would love to be part of it, but I just can't see it happening.

[max is gr8]

Mr. Squirrel another idea would be for people to upload videos onto youtube or something for everyone to view. But the flaw with that is it's impersonal. That was my second best Idea

[bryguy]

Mr. Squirrel another idea would be for people to upload videos onto youtube or something for everyone to view. But the flaw with that is it's impersonal. That was my second best Idea

impersonal being....???? sorry, im not that good with words, and i stink at grammar does i.



and Mr. Squirrel, gimil was able to teach me over just about 10-20 pms.

[TaCktiX]

bryguy, no harm intended, but it's barely shown. Empire Builder has a long ways to go until it looks near the Foundry standard.

In my experience, it takes 4 times as long to show someone how you did something than just doing it and knowing how. As has been noted, nearly none of the mapmakers capable of doing that teaching have the time to do so, including myself.

[gimil]

Mr. Squirrel another idea would be for people to upload videos onto youtube or something for everyone to view. But the flaw with that is it's impersonal. That was my second best Idea

This was something I wanted to start doing. Unfortunatly I could never get hypercam to work with my mic.

[AndyDufresne]

As the site grows and grows, perhaps some day we'll be able to work an idea like this. Unfortunately for now, it is hard to do anything official. But, that said, there are a number of unofficial things that can be done...that have been happening ever since the Foundry first started.


If you have an idea for a map, but little or no skills...you have some options:

• If you are really dedicated, the internet is filled tutorials, videos, and online forum boards to help. Start small with goals you can reach, and slowly increase your standards. This is a long approach, but in time your investment will pay off.
  -
• If you lack the drive to study videos and tutorials, the next best thing you could do is develop your idea thoroughly. Create rough sketches and write up as much detail as you can. If you come to the Foundry with an in depth idea and a vision, a few cartographers throughout the Foundry's history have been known to adopt an idea and work on the visuals.
  -
• If you lack the intense vision and dedication, simply come to the Foundry and comment on the maps that interest you. Give feedback to the cartographers on how YOU would like the map crafted. How it could interest YOU. All maps thrive on feedback, and generally the cartographers are willing to craft a map so as to have broad appeal. Simply make your voice heard on what interests you, and what style or type of map YOU would like to play on.

Just a few bananas of thought.


--Andy

[cairnswk]

The requirements there, the time of anyone with the skill isnt

ACTUALLY.....

there are SOME map makers that have some extra time on there hands (i think). I know that I used to have a couple or 3 or 10 hours on my hands, but now (thanks to my dad) i only get 2 hours on the computer a day

Your Dad's doing you a big favour. Beleive me.

[gimil]

The requirements there, the time of anyone with the skill isnt

ACTUALLY.....

there are SOME map makers that have some extra time on there hands (i think). I know that I used to have a couple or 3 or 10 hours on my hands, but now (thanks to my dad) i only get 2 hours on the computer a day

Your Dad's doing you a big favour. Beleive me.

well said cairns, , wish my dad would do the same sometimes.

[RjBeals]

Ha... you guys and your fathers. Just move out!

[DiM]

the internet is filled with tutorials. i'm pretty sure none of the people here were taught how to make maps. most of us learned (and are still learning) photoshop (and other programs) from internet tutorials. i read tons of tutorials and learn new programs all the time. it's fast it's fun and if you really want to learn it is also really easy.

since i started map making i started learning the following: fireworks 8, photoshop cs2+cs3, flash, sketchup, blender, 3d studio max9, maya unlimited 2008 and cinema 4d 10.
nobody taught me and yet i have managed to comprehend those programs and use them. some better than others but still i can say i manage to do stuff in each of them. i'm 100% certain that if i had a tutor i wouldn't have managed to learn so much for the simple fact a tutor can't possibly teach you all the time, while the internet can.
for example the latest addition to the softwares i started learning (cinema 4d) was a fluke that came to me at 2 in the middle of the night. 1 hour later i had it installed and i had 8 bookmarked websites with tutorials and i was making my first image.
now tell me who would have woken up at 2 am to teach me c4d

[bryguy]

The requirements there, the time of anyone with the skill isnt

ACTUALLY.....

there are SOME map makers that have some extra time on there hands (i think). I know that I used to have a couple or 3 or 10 hours on my hands, but now (thanks to my dad) i only get 2 hours on the computer a day

Your Dad's doing you a big favour. Beleive me.

well said cairns, , wish my dad would do the same sometimes.

Ha... you guys and your fathers. Just move out!

In this aspect, I agree completely with RJ. Sadly tho, I cannot act upon it, cause of the following problems:

To young to move out
No money to buy myself a computer (saving up for Adobe Photoshop Cs3 though (i think, unless i decide i would like a Wii better) but that will still take some time)
Because of the 2 hour thing, I cant work on my map as much as I like, and so it takes me longer to get stuff done
Im forgetful

so yea, those are why I cant move out....

the internet is filled with tutorials. i'm pretty sure none of the people here were taught how to make maps. most of us learned (and are still learning) photoshop (and other programs) from internet tutorials. i read tons of tutorials and learn new programs all the time. it's fast it's fun and if you really want to learn it is also really easy.

since i started map making i started learning the following: fireworks 8, photoshop cs2+cs3, flash, sketchup, blender, 3d studio max9, maya unlimited 2008 and cinema 4d 10.
nobody taught me and yet i have managed to comprehend those programs and use them. some better than others but still i can say i manage to do stuff in each of them. i'm 100% certain that if i had a tutor i wouldn't have managed to learn so much for the simple fact a tutor can't possibly teach you all the time, while the internet can.
for example the latest addition to the softwares i started learning (cinema 4d) was a fluke that came to me at 2 in the middle of the night. 1 hour later i had it installed and i had 8 bookmarked websites with tutorials and i was making my first image.
now tell me who would have woken up at 2 am to teach me c4d

Yea I agree with DiM. After my photoshop cs3 30 day trial wore off, i was bummed. But then i figured out how to do 60% of the stuff that cs3 can do using GIMP and/or Inkscape. Ive also when I was younger gotten a ton of use out of Paint, and if I could get my families stupid old '94 computer to turn on and a norton security thing to work on it, and internet back up on it, then i would probably make some cool pictures with paint. Also, I've gotten some use of Photoshop 7 on my older sisters laptop, and made a pretty good image on there. All that I wouldnt have been able to do ('xcept for paint) unless gimil had taught me just that little bit he did, and if there werent already some great tutorials out there that I could figure out how to modify for use with what I have availible.



I would love to make a hole long video tutorial for some of the stuff I've learned, but alas, my parents wont let me use YouTube for uploading videos on to


Oh, and I also have some experience making video games. Course, you end up about as small as a germ in my video games, and everything is HUGE compared to you being tiny. And also in each game you uh.... fall through the floor along with all the other items (except for the floor.....). Also, Im trying to learn to use blender. Best Ive made so far is a snowman with a beak instead of a carrot

[MrBenn]

I first used photoshop to remove a goalpost from my head on a graduation photograph... I quickly learnt to use the clone tool to take out all of the people in the background, and I even got rid of the white lines on the playing field!

Since then I've mainly used it for touching up photographs (removing red eye, or stupid things coming out of people's heads), and I've had a fairly good eye for designing stuff using DTP, but the Europa map I'm working on is the first time I've used PS to create an image completely from scratch... It has been an extremely steep learning curve - and I discovered the lighting effects a few days ago!

The best thing I would recommend is to discover the keyboard shortcuts for the different tools etc - it helps to speed up what you're doing. There are millions of web tutorials for anything you could possibly want to do, and the best way to learn is through trial and error... that way, you get to see what different things do, so you've got more ideas for next time.

[gimil]

Since then I've mainly used it for touching up photographs (removing red eye, or stupid things coming out of people's heads), and I've had a fairly good eye for designing stuff using DTP, but the Europa map I'm working on is the first time I've used PS to create an image completely from scratch... It has been an extremely steep learning curve - and I discovered the lighting effects a few days ago!

Do you really think the learning curve is steep? I installed photoshop days before I joined CC, then I started portugal! Took me no time at all to learn.

[t-o-m]

Since then I've mainly used it for touching up photographs (removing red eye, or stupid things coming out of people's heads), and I've had a fairly good eye for designing stuff using DTP, but the Europa map I'm working on is the first time I've used PS to create an image completely from scratch... It has been an extremely steep learning curve - and I discovered the lighting effects a few days ago!

Do you really think the learning curve is steep? I installed photoshop days before I joined CC, then I started portugal! Took me no time at all to learn.

same

i just played around on PS then i figured out what does what.
im still learning now...

[Kaplowitz]

If you need a nything specific, post in TTT

[bryguy]

Since then I've mainly used it for touching up photographs (removing red eye, or stupid things coming out of people's heads), and I've had a fairly good eye for designing stuff using DTP, but the Europa map I'm working on is the first time I've used PS to create an image completely from scratch... It has been an extremely steep learning curve - and I discovered the lighting effects a few days ago!

Do you really think the learning curve is steep? I installed photoshop days before I joined CC, then I started portugal! Took me no time at all to learn.

same

i just played around on PS then i figured out what does what.
im still learning now...

10 minutes after downloading cs3, i had made a cool looking image of europe

[MrBenn]

Since then I've mainly used it for touching up photographs (removing red eye, or stupid things coming out of people's heads), and I've had a fairly good eye for designing stuff using DTP, but the Europa map I'm working on is the first time I've used PS to create an image completely from scratch... It has been an extremely steep learning curve - and I discovered the lighting effects a few days ago!

Do you really think the learning curve is steep? I installed photoshop days before I joined CC, then I started portugal! Took me no time at all to learn.

In my mind, a steep learning curve means that you learn a lot very quickly.

Having said that, I'm sure there is loads more stuff that I could do, that a) have never needed to do, b) have never known I could do, and c) just didn't know how to do.